/e/OS is android lol. Yes it’s better than the version of android that ships with phones by default, but grapheneos is still way better than e/os (even though they’re all android)
We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS. Giving into Google hardware to escape Google software is a step I don’t want to take. I’ll take calyxOS or divestOS until then.
We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS.
GOS has strict hardware requirements to increase security that currently only Pixels meet. They won’t, and shouldn’t, compromise their standards which would give you a weaker OS. Want GOS on other vendors? Convince those vendors to up their hardware game.
Yes, hardware requirements for Android need to be higher. That’s the only way you get other manufacturers.
My main issue with Pixels is their price, even the Pixel A. They are completely unaffordable new, and only hit below $300 when they barely have any support yet (or are used). I don’t mind using an EOL phome because with short support like on phones it is unavoidable, but that would be after alreafdy overpaying.
Honestly the short 5 year from original release till EOL thing really fucking annoys me, but it’s literally every phone on the market. I’ve looked, it’s impossible to find a phone that doesn’t force you to replace it every few years unless you go to a plain dumb phone that only supports voice calls and maybe basic SMS with no apps. That’s just a nonstarter in this day and age.
Even alternative Android firmware like GrapheneOS and /e/OS are dependent on the stock firmware releases by the phone manufacturer so when the manufacturer goes EOL and stops releasing updates your alternative installs also are effectively EOL.
The only solution to this problem I’ve seen that seems like it has a chance is Linux Phone OS, but it still has several problems that make it unusable for most people (biggest one probably being that it provides absolutely terrible battery life).
I mean realistically you would not be replacing the phone just because it hits EOL, maybe if you’re wealthy and/or have a higher threat model.
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Most people around me carry budget phones under $200. so no, far from a steal.
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You live in a richer area then. Most people where I live make less than 1k a month.
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Unfortunately the fact that NFC can’t be used on anything that’s rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker. If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.
Unfortunately the fact that NFC can’t be used on anything that’s rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker.
NFC can be used on GOS, and they frown on rooting.
If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.
It’s due to PlayIntegrity API wanting a “Google certified OS,” which is ironically less secure than hardware attestation that GOS supports. I doubt Google would change their model, but your bank might. Some banks do support GOS, and they have changed at the request of their customers before. Send them the GOS documentation and you might get lucky.
https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide
not being able to use contactless pay does not equal “NFC can’t be used on anything”.
Technically you’re correct, but it’s effectively the same thing since I’ve literally never used NFC for anything besides contactless payment and initial phone setup when migrating from an older Android phone to a newer one. For most people NFC is synonymous with contactless payment.
it’s effectively the same thing since I’ve
big detail. I connect my Sony XM4s to my phone with NFC multiple times a day. not to mention that you still can use Google Pay on rooted devices with some workarounds. not to mention that some bank apps don’t use Google Pay for contactless payments at all. I’ve been paying via NFC with my bank app on a rooted phone for years until they scrapped their own solution and adopted the GPay approach instead.
If you get a pixel watch you can pair it and use that for Google Pay FYI and have Graphene OS on your phone.
Sorry, I don’t understand the motivation here, you want to not let Google spy on you via their OS, but are perfectly happy to give them your entire payment record?
Not my entire payment record but certainly everything I use my phone to pay for. I’m willing to give Google some of my info as long as I’m in control of what info I’m giving them. Everything I do on my phone is too much. If a 3rd party offered a NFC payment app I’d happily use that over GPay, but until that exists GPay is the only option. Ultimately GPay is safer than using actual credit cards because it’s more resistant to skimming. The extra security outweighs the loss of privacy in this specific case. I’m not happy about that but there doesn’t seem to be a better alternative at this time.
You know that if someone skims your card and makes a fraudulent purchase, you will likely be able to get your money back, right?
What do you think will happen if someone exploits a 0-day in GPay to do this? How could your bank know the purchase was fraudulent? At least with a card it is obvious that this can happen.
If you care about “secure” payments that much, why not use cash?
You know that if someone skims your card and makes a fraudulent purchase, you will likely be able to get your money back, right?
Sure but it’s a major pain in the ass. Every time it happens I have to cancel my current cards, request a new one, find all the services I’m currently paying with the now cancelled card and update them to a different card while I wait for the replacement, and then maybe remember to swap them back when the new card shows up. It doesn’t happen constantly but if I use cards to pay they seem to get skimmed about once every year or two.
What do you think will happen if someone exploits a 0-day in GPay to do this? How could your bank know the purchase was fraudulent? At least with a card it is obvious that this can happen.
Literally never happened before, but same way they know a credit charge is fraudulent, I tell them. Also if someone found a 0-day in GPay I wouldn’t be the only one complaining of fraudulent charges, they’d be flooded with complaints.
If you care about “secure” payments that much, why not use cash?
Because that’s a pain in the ass. I don’t care about “secure” payments, I care about not having to spend days dealing with the aftermath of it. Paying with cash means I need to constantly go to ATMs to withdraw money, and if I’m doing that my odds of getting my card skimmed actually go up so it doesn’t even protect my from that.
Literally never happened before, but same way they know a credit charge is fraudulent, I tell them.
The reason I brought this up is because I read a story of a European guy who had someone pay for something in Brazil using his card, through GPay. He didn’t get his money back, as the bank didn’t believe him (as GPay is supposed to be secure). Take this with a grain of salt though, as I can’t find this story now.
Also if someone found a 0-day in GPay I wouldn’t be the only one complaining of fraudulent charges, they’d be flooded with complaints.
Not necessarily. Maybe a company like Pegasus is already exploiting a 0-day to see the purchase history of people, but they’re smart enough to not attract attention by stealing.
Been using GrapheneOS for close to 2 years, love it. Not perfect, but it’s solid & does everything I need well enough. Even with the minor bugs, it’s a hell of a lot better than having Google’s or any other vendor’s proprietary bloatware stuck on there.
I would say you should use GrapheneOS first, if you don’t have a Pixel, use DivestOS, if you can’t use that, use /e/. That’s the order I would put them in for security and privacy.
Iirc E/OS is based on Lineage, but takes a horrifying long time to patch in security updates on top of Lineage’s already somewhat laggy patches. If you choose to use it make sure you’re aware of that going in.
Also, like IIGxC said it’s a android. Maybe slightly more private that most stock versions on most phones. But that’s like saying [insert Linux distro] is better than Linux.
LineageOS will only patch Android. It will not patch hardware vulnerabilities after the device no longer has support from the manufacturer.
Both of these OSes are dangerous for privacy and security.
What’s your suggestion for hardware patches after the manufacturer ends support?
There is no option. There is too much variation in the various phone chips for the hardware hacking community to reverse engineer more than a bare handful. And as soon as the hardware has been reverse engineered, it will never be used again by a manufacturer making the exercise largely pointless.
Add to that, the fact that Qualcomm actively discourages long term support of their chips….
Exactly my point. Thank you.
That’s why Fairphone choose a QCM6490 for the fairphone 5. It’s far from being the best, but it has longer term support than mainstream oriented SOC.
Since the SOC will probably be enough for most of users, it’s not a bad option I guess.
Get a new phone the vendor does support.
Firmware patching is applying low-level firmware to the modem or baseband, similar to a BIOS update on a desktop or server. These binary libraries are (a) proprietary, and (b) opaque to the user (meaning they’re not documented like normal software)
Once a vendor drops support for a platform, that’s it, that’s the end of the line. The device will still work, but any, glitches, firmware vulnerabilities, or updates for network-side changes will no longer be addressed.
This is just not realistic though, as the support is so short. You cannot buy phones ever few years. Only thing you can realistically do is apply at least Lineage and exercise caution.
Denying reality isn’t realistic either.
Knowing your threat model and being aware of your tradeoffs and decisions is useful. Maybe security isn’t more important than longevity, but the phone owner should be making a deli rate choice.
With the new pixels having 7 years of support things are improving. It would be nice for them to open source the hardware specs at the end of the support window…
Who’s going to be digging into the depths of a 5+ year old phone on the off chance they can find a baseband vulnerability though?
Even if they do find something, the number of people for them to exploit is probably going to be vanishingly small.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/18/22440813/android-devices-active-number-smartphones-google-2021
There are 3 billion Android devices. So basically everyone is incentivized to break in. Especially if the firmware is not updating, that means once you find an exploit it’s good forever
Plus, and most people don’t realize this, the same chips are used in multiple different phones. So you just have to break the baseband once, and you get into multiple different phone models
100% you are correct.
Shame on the down voters.
Running a phone without firmware and driver security patches is a huge risk, that goes up geometrically the longer the phone is out of support.
Lineageos is great for making older devices useful but they are not secure, and they shouldn’t be used for anything sensitive like money
Ultimately the real solution to a lot of these problems is likely to be a Linux phone OS. It’s something being actively worked on, but it’s still only half baked and I wouldn’t recommend anyone daily drive a Linux phone. Maybe in a few more years it will reach a state where it’s actually usable.
One thing that would help a lot is if some company stepped up to provide a platform agnostic NFC payment solution that worked on both iOS and Android. As far as I’m aware if you want NFC payment you have exactly one choice depending on your OS, and both Apple and Google brick NFC if you root your device.
I really want to use my PinePhone Pro, but it’s been in a box since the week I bought it.
I thought I was going to start hacking around, but then I didn’t have the time. It has everything I want from a phone, except for software.
PostmarketOS devs have made huge improvements over the past year. Now it can be used for daily driving. Some functions do not work simply due to the lack of drivers.
I love /e/OS, but it’s not better. I’ve had a lot of issues ranging from GPS being inaccurate, MMS not working, and most annoyingly : the play store alternative works (app lounge) works 1% of the time…
Which version and phone are you on ? I’m on “t” version on a Oneplus 7 et I have none of these issues.
I first installed the “s” version and got annoying bugs, then switched to the “t” one and everything was OK. I now all the version aren’t available on every devices, I hope you can switch on a more stable one.
Oh I see that there are “t” versions which are much more up to date! (2.1, latest in 2024-05). I didn’t know about these versions, thank you so much.
Can you confirm that I’ll need to wipe everything to switch from R to T? Or is there a way to bridge to that version without data loss?
That’s great !
R and T should have a different android base, so, It would be safer to wipe everything while upgrading.
1.8-r, which seems to be the official version
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I like /e/OS, but the app lounge bothers me a lot. There is no uninstall button and it is not possible to add Fdroid repos… So I have Fdroid installed in addition to it.
I do not see an added value as if I had the aurora store installed + Fdroid.
IMO, the best addition of e/OS compared to lineage is clearly the tracker /ad blocker app.
I think the greatest hindrance to /e/ is the fact that so few devices are supported. The article lists Fairphone as a supported device but that doesn’t retail in my country. Most Chinese OEMs (that form the bulk in my nation) won’t be supported by it. I have had a Nokia and a Samsung but even those two models are nope. One would need to go with the express purpose of installing alternative OS’s and then purchase supported phones like Pixel probably, if they wanna indulge in this. But normal people aren’t gonna do this. They are going to purchase the phone that fits the price vs performance ratio for them rather than alternative OS criterion.
Almost every paragraph is it’s own, self-sufficient, malignant cancer. How did this even get published?
AI: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would definitely try it, but all the phones I’ve been looking at recently don’t have any support whatsoever for any of those types of custom OS’s. No Lineage, no anything. All because they’re not flagship models and are more budget friendly phones (and have what I’m looking for: headphone jack and SD slot).
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[ confirmation bias at play. you have switched to bluetooth. it meets or exceeds all your needs. you don’t see much public indication to the contrary. you figure bluetooth is the best. ]
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simplicity the cable just works. no configuration. no pairing .un pairing, figuring why it worked yesterday
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Audio quality - bluetooth is lossy. we just were given AptX lossless in 2021 ( another confirmation bias ) “Sounds great to me” “I can’t hear the difference”.
2 things are both possibly true though: I can’t hear the difference. Other people hear a big difference. this seems impossible to some people. As if their senses are the apogee of human sense. -
lag. new codecs lower latency, but lag lag lag. You couldn’t possibly use your device as a synth/music instrument and ‘play’ the lag is far to great. Same with games.
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whats the big deal. This is a bias for the plug users - would it hurt to keep it? we’ve always had it. The work is already done. Its already baked in the cake, why you gotta take it out?
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Investment - I have really good headphones. I have really good earbuds. Yes there are adapters but they are finicky exactly when you want them to just work. They inevitably break. They often downgrade the sound - I have 3 usb to audio adapters for android that all hiss for no reason.
The issue is that when the marketers are selling us a ‘clean vision of the future’ they purposefully gloss over the things they are taking away. Then they paint the people who feel pain because of the change as neanderthals who wouldn’t know better if it bit them. When they do know better. They had better (for them) and progress made it worse (for them). To which the marketers generally say - you should be someone else.
Lol @ this barely coherent drivel being up voted.
Lol harder at the butthurt 3.5mm fetishists who downvote simple answers to their unbelievably petty and stupid criticisms.
Lol hardest at every dipshit who mentioned Bluetooth and didn’t like when the adapters were pointed out as the basic solution to their whining.
“We don’t want solutions we want to bitch”
simplicity the cable just works. no configuration. no pairing .un pairing, figuring why it worked yesterday
Use the adapter plug as mentioned. You can even just leave it on your normal headphones if you only use 1 pair!
whats the big deal. This is a bias for the plug users - would it hurt to keep it?
Hurts waterproofing, phone slimness and design, etc. again, you can just use an adapter to have all the stuff you’re whining about back.
Investment - I have really good headphones. I have really good earbuds. Yes there are adapters but they are finicky exactly when you want them to just work
No, you’re either talking out of your ass or buying the cheapest possible cord and being shocked when it doesn’t work right. My $8 adapter has worked for 4 years no problem driving over-ear headphones no issues.
they purposefully gloss over the things they are taking away
Nothing was taken away. It’s literally just combined with another port now.
If you want to be mad at anyone: be mad at the people making headphones with 3.5mm jacks rather than USB-C, as they’re the ones using an outdated port.
Use the adapter plug as mentioned.
Type C can’t spin 360°. I have a 90-degree 3.5mm jack, which doesn’t create a risk of breaking the port, so I can put my phone in my pocket in any position.
Hurts waterproofing, phone slimness and design
Check out the Sony Xperia 10. It’s the smallest phone on the market with a 3.5mm jack, micro SD slot, 5000 mAh battery, and IP68 rating.
Nothing was taken away. It’s literally just combined with another port now.
Haha, remember 2000s, when most phones were using proprietary connector for both charging and headphones output? Everyone hated that stuff.
Type C can’t spin 360°
Headphone jack portion of the adapter can
Remember the 2000s
Yeah, because everyone having a different charger is the same thing as an actually UNIVERSAL connector.
I mean that phones had combo port both for charging and headphones. Using adapters was annoying. And if you saying that 3.5mm is obsolete than why newest Macbooks have 3.5mm port?
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If you have 512gb of storage I think you likely paid more for your phone than I have for my last 3 phones combined going back 5 or 6 years.
Decent wired earbuds are $20. Bluetooth earbuds in that price range are terrible and uncomfortable.
Some of us can’t or won’t spend lots of money on disposable tech like phones.
You consider yourself a power user, I’m just a guy who needs a phone to phone, text and do a few internet tasks like casual games for work downtime.
I don’t have anything against people who like having the latest and greatest tech but I don’t have that urge or see the need in some cases. I generally don’t like being pushed into spending more money with no appreciable gain in functionality.
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These things aren’t deal-breakers they’re conveniences for me. It’s easy to transfer stuff to a new phone with an SD card, if your old phones screen dies (has happened to me twice over the years) you can still easily move your stuff over to the new phone.
My last phone only had 64gb of storage. I always have some audio-books and podcasts on my phone for when I go to very rural areas with bad reception like the lake. Up until the phone I bought this year with 256gb I would have been always cramped for space without an SD card.
Why use an adapter if you don’t have to, that’s just one more thing to go wrong or get in the way. I had a pixel for a while and I did use an adapter for my headphones. They were awkwardly placed with the adapter, if the usb port broke because of the headphone adapter being awkwardly placed I couldn’t charge the phone. If I broke a headphone jack I’m just inconvenienced.
I don’t understand why someone being content using older technology bothers you so much that you want them to defend their choices.
Even if the $800-$1000 phones had those features I wouldn’t spend that much on a phone. If only the flagships had those features I’d go without. Thy’re nice to have but not must haves.
Do you also get annoyed with people who play retro games or listen to vinyl records? Do you wonder why people drive classic cars or wear analog watches?
I can’t speak to the sd card situation but I still prefer a headphone jack over Bluetooth. I would argue that the vast majority of people (as you put it) use Bluetooth headphones simply because they were forced into it.
Bluetooth is neat and all but it’s also super old (28 years!). It’s older than smart phones and sd cards. But age aside, it’s also not reliable. You cannot guarantee it will work everytime you need it. Whereas you could reasonably expect a headphone jack to work everytime. So replacing old reliable with old not-reliable doesn’t seem right from a logical perspective.
My only other concern is convenience. But wired and wireless both have pros and cons and I just consider them more or less equal.
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I love how anyone with half a fucking brain gets down voted.
Rather than point out where youre wrong thet just keep yelling about Bluetooth and downvotig once they realize they’ve run out of “gotchas”
Anyone fucking stupid enough to think the 3.5mm Jack is a good thing deserves the disappointment they feel every time a device doesn’t have own, tbh, bring it on themselves
I love how anyone with
half a fucking brainpoor conversational skills and an inability to see things from someone else’s perspective gets down voted.Try talking to people online as though they were in the same room as you, IRL. If you’re already doing that, I have to ask, how many offline friends do you have?
I have been, I don’t respect people who want things to stay the way they were because they refuse to try new things.
People with very polite and normal responses were gettug downvoters just because they offered solutions that can’t be dismissed easily, so downvoting was done instead.
It allllways comes to the civility argument when people know their position is dog shit, too. Cute.
I don’t have a position on cell phone interfaces and hadn’t planed to give one. No skin in this game, really, though it’s clearly a contentious issue!
I just can’t help but notice when people are being terrible conversation partners, mostly. Me finding you to be an asshole has nothing to do with how I feel about cell phone ports.
Anyone fucking stupid enough to think the 3.5mm Jack is a good thing deserves the disappointment they feel every time a device doesn’t have own, tbh, bring it on themselves
Are you 12?
I think you might have half a brain. Me and the gentleman on the other side of the argument are having a conversation right now so please go away.
Sorry, that’s not how public forums work.
Don’t like me replying to someone else? You can fuck off, you know?
